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Subject: Which plane did Bush see?
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mulhollandj
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05/30/2006 3:54 PM  
According to http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/12/20011204-17.html Bush claimed to have seen a plane hit the tower before he went into the classroom.

THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you, Jordan.  Well, Jordan, you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack.  I was in Florida.  And my Chief of Staff, Andy Card -- actually, I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works.  I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on.  And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there's one terrible pilot.  I said, it must have been a horrible accident.

But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to think about it.  And I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my Chief of Staff, who is sitting over here, walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower, America is under attack."


Which plane did he see hit?  Was it the first one?  How did he see that as I don't believe it was broadcast until the next day?  Any ideas anyone?  If it was the second plane then why did Andy Card have to tell him the second plane had hit.




unfettered_kittens
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05/30/2006 10:53 PM  
Where are you going with this? I don't think the President had anything to do with 9-11
Gunrights
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05/31/2006 1:04 PM  

If I may speculate, I believe he meant that he saw the results of the first plane strike, ie the smoke pillowing out of Trade Tower South. I do not know if you have ever been asked a question by a reporter. They always seem to approach you when you are the least ready and then often suprise you with a question that you would never have thought of. It is very easy to not be precise in what you say. I have had this happen to me on more than one occasions. It takes alot of experience and a very level head to deal with these people, becasue they can always edit out their mistakes, but will assurdedly use yours.

 

mulhollandj
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05/31/2006 4:14 PM  
He also said it in California. (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020105-3.html) Both times he specifically said that he saw the first plane hit. I don't think that he was taken aback by the question.

The Florida question was
One thing, Mr. President, is that you have no idea how much you've done for this country. And another thing is that, how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?

The Califonia questions was
Q What was the first thing that went through your head when you heard that a plane crashed into the first building?

Was he flustered by the questions? The Florida one was asked by a kid, probably preplanned. I am not sure on the California one. To make a fairly serious mistake like that twice sounds awful suspicious. I have not seen any corrections or explanations anywhere. I am not convinced he had something to do with it but remember a BYU physics prof wrote a paper on why he thought explosives had been used to blow up building at the WTC.
nonleft
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05/31/2006 5:10 PM  
Yes, I have read what BYU Professor Dr. Jones has had to say about WTC 1,2 & 7. I also think that he is full of it! Just because he has a PhD doesn't excuse him from using common sense. The fact that he teaches at BYU, is this suppose to cause me to believe him because I'm LDS?  You once said the following mulhollandj.

I think that many good LDS people, especially in Utah, confuse the President of the Church with Pres Bush. They know that Pres. Hinckley is directed by God and won't lead them astray and they shouldn't question what he says. Unfortunately they carry that over into politics. Some feel that if Bush says it then it must be true.”

I agree with some of that. Wouldn't you also agree then that many members of the church take the opinions of prominent members blindly like Professor Jones for example when he states that the buildings were brought down with explosives and not 767's? He is using his status as a BYU Professor and prominent member to state an agenda. They do the same thing at USU all the time. Some USU Professor thinks that Bush is a criminal, caused Hurricane Katrina or that we shouldn't drive SUV's so they write a big letter to the editor, signed with their name and status at USU. Unfortunately, many people in the valley end up believing them because of status alone.

I can't figure out why anyone could even come close to thinking that explosives were in the buildings. If you want to kill lots of people, just blow up the buildings for crying out loud. Why would someone put explosives in buildings and then fly a 767 into it? I would say that the 767 at 500+ MPH was good enough for explosives. My explanation has no less substance than Dr. Jones yet some who believe him head over heals have called me “silly.” I'm the one who is silly here!? What's funny is that they didn't believe that theory prior to Dr. Jones coming out of the closet. I would say that they better watch it, they look a lot more silly than I do considering the side of the issue they now believe

mulhollandj
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05/31/2006 6:14 PM  
I am just saying that there a lot of unanswered questions with the 9/11 attacks. Both those at the WTC and the Pentagon. I am not saying that Bush is a liar and is at fault but I would like to hear some rebuttal from the 'other' side other than calling those with 'conspiracy theorists' or Bush-haters with an agenda. This is something that I am really struggling with. Who can I believe? I want to hear honest answers and questions from both sides so I can make up my mind. I think of what I believe Benson said about the Book of Mormon. It is not full of conspiracy theories. It is full of conspiracy facts. Are there people like Julias Caesar and Napolean who want to rule over everyone? Sure there are, they just wear different clothes and know how to be a lot more subtle.
nonleft
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05/31/2006 6:27 PM  
I'll give you that.

I love President Benson! He is a true American who loved this Country and I'm sure he continues to want the best for us. If there is a conspiracy with facts to back it up, I want to know about it, believe me. I just get a bit heated when I hear people referring to President Bush as the moral equivalent to Satan all the time. You know what I mean. Just like you though, I want the truth.

Thanks for your input by the way. Good topic!
Later
mulhollandj
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05/31/2006 8:16 PM  
So how do you find truth? I think of the way to spot false prophets. By their fruits ye shall know them. What are Bush's fruits?

War - Attack on Afghanistan and Iraq without declaring war according to the Constitution
Patriot Act - Blatantly unconstitutional
Torture? This one is questionable
Warantless Wiretapping - Unreasonable search and seizure?
Word Government - Shamelessly promoting CAFTA and FTAA. What has happened to states rights under the WTO and these 'treaties'? . Utah may have to allow online gambling.
Protecting the Borders - Absolute minimum he can do.
Protecting marriage - I really haven't seen him do much

There is also a report that he called the Constitution 'just a $%! piece of paper'. Does he believe that? His actions seem to indicate

After making an oath to protect the Constitution it seems like he has done more to destroy it then protect it.

I welcome any more information on good things Bush has done because I just don't see it.
Gunrights
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06/02/2006 10:08 AM  
I believe the real issue here is what makes the most sense. Have you ever heard of the axiom called Occam's Razor. If have time you should read about it because I think it applies here. To have planted explosives, known that an airplane was going to be hijacked, placed the explosives in both buildings just below where the airplane was going to him, etc. etc. etc. and then keep it all quiet (both the people responsible) requires alittle more coordination than I can imagine. What is it that motivates people to bring up something like this? I believe it is the belief that America is the cause of all evil! Leftist say that all of the time. Therefore, Bin Ladden etc. couldn't really be to blame, just tools of the evil empire. To JH. Have you ever heard the saying that "perfect is the enemy of good enough?" Please think about the meaning of this phrase. I think it reflects a great deal of wisdom.
Gunrights
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06/02/2006 10:17 AM  
One more idea just occured to me. Do you know that Arabs from many different countries have been claiming since 9/11 that Israel was behind 9/11? And of course all of the Jews that worked in the Towers were warned before hand not to go to work that day. If this isn't believeable why would blowing up the towers to gain more power be? I lived during the time of JE Hoover. Now if you want to know about abuse of power you should read about COINTELPRO. And no one involved was ever punished. This program was unbelievable when it comes to abuse of power. Many terrible things were done. I was a minor target. So I know alittle about conspiracies and abuse of power and what is going on now is childs play compared to past acts by our government. Are you aware that during WWI many religious people where placed in prison for opposing the war! What I really fear, is not my government, but the lack of public interest. That is were the real threat lies because bureaucracy's always strive for more power. What keeps things in check is a well informed public who cares enough to do something about things. The Media is constantly misinforming the people and the people have become to fat and lazy to do their part. This needs to change. When we have enough people involved willing to wrest control then lets educate them about the Constitution. Until people even think there is a problem, I believe you will alienate them with ideology.
mulhollandj
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06/02/2006 12:22 PM  
To know that terrorists would hit the buildings on certain flights and then plant and detonate explosives in a building and keep it quit seems to me about as hard as training, entering the country, coordinating the attacks and keeping it all secret. I am not saying the government did it but I am keeping my mind open to that possibility.

The US government has done terrible things in the past. I think of what happened to the Mormons and how the federal government did nothing. So, if you were going to take over the nation how would you do it? Would you inflitrate the major newspapers and other media sources with your peopel? Would you try to create two political parties who are almost the same but differ on some hot topics so people choose sides? Would you slowly take away people's liberties one by one? Would you have people pretend to oppose you and then show how full of lies they are? What is our protection? The Constitution. How well do we know it?
nonleft
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06/04/2006 2:54 PM  

Posted By mulhollandj on 05/31/2006 8:16 PM


"So how do you find truth? Well, one we start by using common sense. Dr. Jones is too far out for me.

I think of the way to spot false prophets. By their fruits ye shall know them. What are Bush's fruits?

War - Attack on Afghanistan and Iraq without declaring war according to the Constitution
Patriot Act - Blatantly unconstitutional
You forget to give blame where it is due here on both War and the Patriot Act. What about Congress? Did they not pass the resolution?
Torture? This one is questionable
Warantless Wiretapping - Unreasonable search and seizure?
Word Government - Shamelessly promoting CAFTA and FTAA. What has happened to states rights under the WTO and these 'treaties'? . Utah may have to allow online gambling.
Why is the JBS so big on the FTAA and CAFTA alone? Every meeting I have ever attended, this is all they ever talk about. What about the UN? JBS was real big on this group of thugs a while back but you never hear about it any more. The UN is far worse than FTAA to me.
Protecting the Borders - Absolute minimum he can do.
Protecting marriage - I really haven't seen him do much
I would think you could give him some credit on the last two! He has not been very good on the border, I'll give you that but he did step it up at the border two weeks ago. He has always said that he would sign an ammendment to the constitution that protects marrage! Again, what about Congress? They are the ones dropping the ball.
There is also a report that he called the Constitution 'just a $%! piece of paper'. Does he believe that? His actions seem to indicate.
Do we know that he said this for sure? "Reports" can also be false just to try to cheap shot the President.

After making an oath to protect the Constitution it seems like he has done more to destroy it then protect it.

I welcome any more information on good things Bush has done because I just don't see it."

 

mulhollandj
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06/05/2006 8:23 AM  
Thank you for the response. Hopefully we can work together from different perspectives to make thsi country better. I do give blame of the War and Patriot Act to both the President and to Congress. Despite Congressional approval the Patriot Act is still unconstitutional. Have they condemned the war as a body? No, they have kind of surrendered this power to the UN.

Why is the JBS so big against the FTAA and CAFTA? That is the current threat and they believe that they are stepping stones to a world government. The JBS are all about protecting the Constitution.

What is Bush's plan for the border? Well, we can send troops down, not to enforce the law but to build fences and roads. Why do we need troops to do that? Why can't we hire contractors? I personally think this is all for show. Has he not granted amnestry? Read the Republican National Platform. It is very pro-world government.

As far as Gay Marriage, this is what Bush ran on. This is how he energized his conservative base. How could he not sign it? I don't think that he really expects it to pass though. What campaigning have you seen him do for it?

I did not mean the piece of paper to be a cheap shot. I was trying to summarize that what I have shown Bush to have done. I do think that Congress does have a lot to do with it. But I do think most have them have been duped as they are not 'wise men'. But I see Bush as a more visible leader and that is why he is my target. Did people actually read the Patriot Act before voting on it? Where did all the pressure to vote on it come from?

I believe that it was Benson who said that secret combinations are alive and doing well. What do you think is preventing them from destroying our country at a faster rate? I would say the Constitution. In 1st Samuel the people reject God and set up a king. Are we rejecting a God inspired document for a king who will 'protect' us?
nonleft
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06/05/2006 9:43 AM  

You made some good points. I just wanted to quick touch on one point. You said, "As far as Gay Marriage, this is what Bush ran on. This is how he energized his conservative base. How could he not sign it? I don't think that he really expects it to pass though. What campaigning have you seen him do for it?"

You may find the following article of intrest.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=294257

mulhollandj
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06/06/2006 3:18 PM  
You can see my comments on the story under John M.  I am a veteran in this after fighting gay marriage in CT.  I was able to learn a lot from some great people.
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